Emotional Investment AKA The difference between Men and Women (online)

[jennaflower]

As some of you may have noticed (or not), I have been rather silent on the boards as of late... not with the desire to be so... but more due to being in a rather reflective mood and attempting not to get tooo deep and bore anyone to tears...

This is about to change... LOL

I had a brief conversation with a dear friend/fellow (male) Pixie member this morning about some of the basic fundemental differences between Men and Women... especially online.

The general gist of the conversation is that both of us agreed that women tend to put a deeper emotional investment into their online relationships (especially with males) than men do. Yes, it can be argued that women being the "emotional" creatures we are make this same mistake in "real life" as well.

We also agreed that most of the emotional investment is due to "expectations". That women tend to allow themselves to "dream" or "expect" things in an online friendship with a man to progress and SOMETIMES read far too much into the possibilities... even if they are able to keep them to themselves, they are often under the surface... "What Ifs... or I Hope's"

Wonderful places like Pixies... in many ways... is a dangerous breeding ground for this kind of behavior... deep emotional attachment and grand expectations... This place allows ALL of us to open up to a level of candidness that rarely is able to be expressed in our daily lives... inching down any walls that we keep up in "real life" and exposing the most raw parts of our minds (and hearts).

Personally, I believe that the men here tend to allow us women to see examples of the "Knight and Shining Armor" kind of guy, who truly has a heart and a desire to please his partner. Unfortunately, these qualities are not as quickly apparent when meeting any man in real life... not at the get go... like it is here... we seem to be able to skip over all the uncomfortable awkward getting to know you stage.. and jump right into the HEART of the matter.

It seems to me that men are able to remove themselves, and to be honest, I am not exactly sure how that is done.. one of the amazing things I shall never understand. I have met men online, who come on strong and then finally give up... and have also come across those who string you along... until you bite... and then disappear.... as tho it is a game... and something tells me that there are women just as capable of the same cold hearted game.

So... I present to everyone a table for discussion... the basic differences between the sexes... what makes women so emotionally invested... what makes it so easy for a man to keep a level head.... do men ever find themselves with "expectations"?

[Lilith]

Funny I had almost an identical conversation this afternoon...LOL:p:D

A wise although smart assed former member once told me that online is like Jr. High and that 1 day online is like 2 weeks in the real world. I think he may be right but I would never admit that to him.

I think sometimes online interactions can be very intense because you actually communicate. Be it truths or be it lies it's often a lot more communicative than some people's daily real world existence and often more in depth.

I think ( and I clarify this as just a random thought in the swirling vortex that is my head) that women tend to become attached to a person based on the reciprocation of language and communication more than on the physicality of that person. In other words substance, character and all the gooey inside stuff attract us more. I think men online tend to be more open which instantly makes them more attractive because they are online looking to communicate, regardless of what need they may be trying to fulfill by communicating. I can only comment about online interactions. I have been married for too long to remember what it's like in person:D

I think some men do have expectations and I think that some women do not and vice versa. It's not a gender based thing as I see it. I am not sure exactly how we differ or why, but it's worked for a long time now and I follow the "if it ain't broke don't fuck with it " theory.

[lakritze]

Very interesting.Read both previous posts.Is there that much difference on line as in real life when you come right down to it? This does seem to be a micro community just like the one we spend most of our lives in. I am willing to guess that we handle our emotional selves much the same way.Where is there a place where we can all go to learn about the difference between the sexes in a safe environment? How do we begin to communicate to one another in an open and honest way without seeming to string each other along.Many of us on both sides of the fence have fragile egos.As many guys as women have been stood up on a date or have felt they have been strung along by a woman they ave shown interest in.Many of us are shy and don't really know how to handle a relationship on screen or off.We are all learning lessons here from each other and it would be a good idea to remember that behind the detatched words and the avitar we use to identify with beats a real heart with stengths as well as weaknesses.So as Fylo of Alexandria once said,"Be kind to everone for they are fighting great battles." Relationships on line can be difficult and different in a few ways.If I were to show an interest in a lady I met while viewing a screen,it would just be my luck that she would live on the other side of the country or maybe 1/2 way around the world.I have often thought how knowing that we'll probably never meet in person would colour my view of an online relationship with her. Good luck Jennaflower,yo sound like a delightful person.

[BigBear57]

Dayum, not even through my first cup of coffee and I find this one. LOL Of course I gotta add my nickel's worth. I know that there are no sweeping generalities about people and their thought processes. I've met several online friends and some are the people they seem to be while others are, well "adaptable". You know, tell Ya what Ya wanna hear. There are obviously women who have mastered the games men have always played as well as some of us guys who actually have hearts that get beaten up. Having that figured out I'm of the opinion that time and need are the only two indicators of real friends, online or not. When things suddenly change or people get irritated when they're questioned, it's obvious something's amiss. Unfortunately for me, I've seen this happen so many times on here. I've found the pains of wanting someone you can't reach and meeting someone close by who wasn't who they seemed to be. I think the nature of online relationships with their inherent fraile line of communications seem to make some take them as casual or less than casual things. I just try to be me and friends are friends. Respect where it's due and consideration at all times. Unfortunately for me, that holds me all too exposed to the chances of being taken for granted, but then that's life and I'm a big boy. I'd rather be known as a "nice guy" than the ruthless guy who gets all the play. (Didn't my nickel run out already?)



Ohhhh and Jenn Hon, I've never found your thoughts boring in the least. You keep typing and I'll keep reading. I find your posts insightful and honest. Boring is really more my line of expertise. LOL

[Belial]

Definitely, Jenna, I've had experiences like yours, but I've also had experiences where a person would change their online behaviour significantly, or where our online relationship (not romantic, haven't had that yet). I try to stay very neutral with my expectations of anybody until I know them very well. I'd rather not be crushed by finding out that someone has no interest in me whatsoever, so I try very hard not to emotionally invest to a large degree. Sometimes I fail, but it is a general policy of mine.

[Irish]

I have never had an online relationship,but having a wife&two
daughters,I can tell you that there is a HUGE difference,in the way
that men & women,look at things!What's the old saying?Men are
from Mars,Women are from Venus.My wife has explained it to me.
She says that I won't even notice something,that bothers the Hell
out of women.We have been married for 38yrs,so it's noticable,by
now,and we have both learned to understand it. Irish

[skipthisone]

Yep

[GingerV]

[laughing] Elloquent as always, Skip.

I've said elsewhere (elsewhere here and elsewhere elsewhere) that I think that online relationships are odd. Not necessarily bad, just different than the relationships (casual and romantic) I've had in real life. They play on a different level, and that cacn be a level certain people are more vulnerable. Whether those people tend to be women, I don't know. In real life, I think, for women, emotional intimacy and sharing is a more powerful sign of love and connection than even physical intimacy is (not saying physical intimacy isn't a REAL big one, just not as big...in my limited experience, the women who get hurt by sex are the ones who confuse it with emotional intimicy). And because the "closeness" online HAS to be of a verbal, and therefore more emotional, level....it could be they are more vulnerable? I've known a lot of guys who had their hearts broken by someone online, though. It may be too much of a generalization to divide it along male and female lines.

As far as the proportion of "white knights" one runs into online, well....boys show off for girls all the time. Here, they have to do it with words...and they're going to do it with the words that put them in the best light, the part of themselve that earns attention. As do we girls...although we may not recognize the categories as such. These same guys probably have white knight tendencies in the real world as well (just the same way as the girls who become charming flirts online have some of that in them in their day to day life), but they aren't pushed forward as much.

But, as I will no doubt repeat again, there are things people can and should do and be aware of to protect themselves from the misinterpretations and occassional outright lies they'll encounter in the world of text. The simple ones are to be honest with yourself and others about what you're thinking and feeling. Most importantly with yourself. Be eternally careful about reading too much (for better or worse) into someone else's words...and to ask them for clarification anytime you're not sure. And finally to dig your heels FIRMLY in and go slow.

Most importantly, I think that until you know someone in real life, on their good days and their bad days, you don't really know them. That's not a bad thing...but it is something to keep in mind.

And Ginge has obviously long since stopped making sense, so she's gonna go be quiet ;).

[WildIrish]

I think Lakritze is dead on with his analogy of the internet being a microcosm of real life. In a densely populated area, if you take the time to meet everyone, you're gonna meet people that are assholes and people that are wonderful. And everyone in between. Chatting for two minutes will probably tilt the scales more towards wonderful, but as time goes by...the elimination process kicks in and you see people for more of what they really are and you end up with an accurate representation. Yes, it's easy to lie online, but as time goes on people's true colors shine through.

Is any of this relevant? I have a tendency to go off on tangents. ha ha

[jennaflower]

Thanks everyone so far for your great input.. one of the main reasons I continue to love this place is for the stimulating and honest discussions that go on... (and NO.. I am NOT just talking about the sexual ones).

Lilith.. I agree... I am not so sure that it is a "gender" issue.. for I have seen people of both genders deceive online.. just as I have been fortunate enough to witness both genders bare their souls and hearts... I think limiting it to a gender issue is far tooo easy an answer for a very complex issue.

lakritze... Yes, this place is a micro-community... with many of the most active participants (and many of the more silent ones as well) become so intertwined that sometimes the lines can blurr.. would I change how people act/react here? Absolutely not... :)

BigBear57... I am glad to see such a long post from you :) You have been far to silent lately for my liking.. how about you tell us more about your theory on "time and need"? :) I for one would love to hear it. Believe me... you are one of the Nice Guys..

Belial.. I truly believe that "expectations" are the largest factor.... and like you.. I try very hard not to have any... tho I have struggled with that in the past. It helps for me personally, when I am forming any type of online friendship with a guy, to be very clear and reassuring that I have no expectations.. or demands.. and just let things flow from that point. I have been fortunate that for the most part, I have been able to make some great friends that way...

Irish... Yes.. Men are from Mars.. and Women are from Venus.. and all of this comes down to that fact. We are raised with different expectations.. and different realities and are taught differently as to how to handle things in life.... I don't imagine these things will ever change... and to be honest.. I guess I wouldn't want them to... the differences and the mysteries in one another is what keeps us coming back....

Skip... a man of few words... :) Just glad to know you agree...

GingerV... thanks for your post.. more than a little wise advice :) I couldn't agree more... until you are in someone life... and have the ability to witness first hand how they live it.. and the person they truly are.. you don't know them... tho.. to some degree... I think that by getting to know someone online first.. over the extended time... you might gain a deeper understanding :)

WildIrish.. Yep.. thanks for pointing out the obvious :) No matter where you are in life.. no matter how big the area (or how small) you are bound to run into people that you become fond of, and others that you can't stand... and that eventually EVERYONE shows themselves for who they really are... hopefully sooner... rather than later :)

Hugs All :)

[Grumble]

I just can't help but weigh in on this one.

I am most likely an atypical male. Well my female friends often tell me so. I seem to want to know the person before any thing sexual and generally enjoy the friendship so much I never go near the sexual side. The only sexual relationship I have had at Pixies has resulted in that person being the only person who I thought as a close friend not wanting to see me on my trip.

I am very sensitive about emotional things and intensely loyal to my friends. I deeply care about people and the "real life" people talk about is no different to "on line" life where I am concerned. There is no lying about myself and I act no different than I would if it were face to face. I am no male slut who will take the chance of sex at every or any opportunity but I am a lover who will only make love with a person I care about either on line or off it.

True I flirt and enjoy that but when it comes to the nitty gritty I am true to my principles.

Not that I am trying to make myself out to be any better or worse than anyone else but it is essentially me. If I enter into a love relationship then it is with full emotional committment and I cannot turn it off. I still suffer the utter sadness of the failure of a love that lasted for more than 3 years on line that came to nothing, I expect that I always will.

A lot of men are more sensitive than they make out to be, but many are more interested in sex than love.

The internet is such an easy place to practise deception but also a place where you can get to know someone from the inside out. Many are the things I would post here or tell my friends on the internet than I would dare tell someone here face to face. I am sure that the person on line would have a much better idea of the person I am straight up than someone I met in my local community. It would take them years to be able to get close enough to know some of the things I tell strangers on line.

The basic things I hold dear, honesty, caring, decency, respect, inteligence, tolerance, open mindedness are the same whether on the net or in the community. Pixies is a place where you can be sexual and not face the narrow mindedness that seems to be rife in most societies. Most people i know from here are good folk who just like to express themselves in all different ways about heir sexuality.

I think that a lot of men do favour sex more than emotion and can detach themselves from emotion quite easily. There are men that are not able to do that though, I am one of them

[Lilith]

There has been a lot of talk of deception.... I just wonder if deception, accurrately describes what may be occurring. Maybe it is as simple as the difference between one person's intentions and another's expectations. Which leaves the hopeful one feeling deceived. Just another swirly idea :spin:

[Irish]

GG---Except for the internet,you could have just described me!I
have been screwed many times in business,because I believe
everyone.It used to be,that no-one lied.I guess that we live in a fantasy land but I still liked the old way better.At least,you could depend on people then&they didn't have the"Hooray for me,Fuck
You!" attitude.I would have gotten my ass,severly kicked,a few times,except for some of my buddies that you knew ALWAYS had
your back! Irish

[rabbit]

I agree with Irish. Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus.

...going back into my cave now.... :p :D


rabbit

[Stinger]

I hope I make sense here. I usually don't come to the general chat area, but this topic intrigued me and I feel strongly about it that I thought I would make some comments.
I am a pretty shy man in real life and if it wasn't for my wife making a move on me, we would probably not be married. Honesty, Respect, Caring is very important to me. My handle that I have used since I have gotten online 5 years ago allows me to speak up and come out of my shell. To me, you do meet the person themselves because you are not judging them on appearance as you do not see them first. Though I do have confidence in my real life as I am a manager and it comes more naturally, not being judge because of my appearance allows me to have even more confidence and allows me to open up more online.
My only expectations is I will be honest and respectful to you and I am hoping that the person on the other end who I am talking is the same to me and to others online. I have a wonderful wife and two beautiful kids so I am not looking for a relationship. My wife and I have an agreement, we are allowed to do what we want online as long as we don't give our our real names, our phone numbers, or home addresses so when I am onlne, I am only Stinger. But everytime I make a comment, it is from the heart. And what can be more honest, open, and being vulnerable from those people who decide to expose themselves for all to see. I admire all who do for them to have that courage. So when I make my comments to all of the beautiful ladies, it once again is from the heart and honest though are a fantasy as whatever I say to them will never happen.
Yes, I have online friends that I do care about as I do with my real life friends and if anything would ever happen to them, it would hurt. I do know how someone could end up having stronger feelings for someone online because of the comments that I made above and I have gotten in trouble with my wife because I have told that person that I did love em and we had to make a new rule that the L word could never be used ever again. Yes I do care for them the same way, but because of the respect and the love I do have for my wife, I will never say it again.
For my wife and I who have been married for almost 10 years and we have been together for 14 years, the internet has allowed us to rekindle our own relationship and allowed us to feel sexy and wanted from other people. We did end up meeting two online friends together about 4 years ago. Though we do not have plans on doing it again, the possibility is there if the two of us agreed on it, but whatever happens, we will be doing it together.

I hope I haven't bored too many people out there. Thank you for listening.

[dm383]

I have read all the earlier posts with great interest, and I have to say SO many comments have struck a chord with me!

As I've said on the boards before, I am quite shy in R/L, and just being online doesn't really change things all that much. I've "indulged" in cybering a few times, but only with people I've got to know a bit before-hand...... just like R/L!! The ONLY difference is, online I have been known to make the first move, whereas in R/L it's very rare for me to do that! I'm sure I've missed out on some fun times, by being so "backward in coming forwards", but all-in-all I've quite enjoyed my life!!

The strange thing for me is, that I do tend to flirt a LOT in R/L... but not so much online; anyone care to share their thoughts on that??

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, I don't think most people's basic natures change that much, just because they're online. Sure, at first "meeting" it's easy to come across as someone you're not, but over time, if you really talk to someone, the "real" them usually comes to the fore. I think that's the point when you have to decide whether or not you want to keep in contact with them, and THAT is where the relative anonymity of the 'net can work in your favour. Of course, if that happens on a place like Pixies, things could get a wee bit fraught; as one or two of our regulars have recently found!!

Just my thoughts...... sorry for rambling on Again!!)

DM