The Meatrix

[FussyPucker]

Had this emailed to me today.........

http://www.themeatrix.com/

[Lilith]

Very cool!

[Steph]

I had that e-mailed to me, too, but didn't post it because I knew PF would make fun of me for being a vegetarian :D

Thanks for posting, FussyPucker!

[Cobalt]

Very Good, So glad there is groups out there that are trying to stop factory farms.

[babybunny]

Mooopheus!

[dicksbro]

That's FP. Very informative. We don't really realize sometimes what's happening, do we? Cool presentation.

[Sharni]

I realize that shit happens....dont like it but still enjoy my meat *L*

[celticangel]

that was great~~~~~will show it to the kids one of these days~~~~~~~~thanks for passing it on!

[LixyChick]

Have I got stories for you......about the kill floors!

Mopac......a beef company about 20 miles from us.......hubby has worked there twice (blown up rock on their land) to expand their operation of beef production. Horror stories of the kill floor abound! Sounds from the cattle as they walk the ramp and such (I'll spare you the details as I don't like to think about it either).

Hatfield........a pork company about 15-20 miles from us........I know a few people who thought they could work on the kill floor........but they couldn't! Takes a rare person to work there all day and go home with no guilt what-so-ever!

And Fussy? Where do you think chicken breasts and thighs and wings come from....huh? (he likes chicken......lol!.....shhhhhhhhh! don't tell him!)

I have to admit, neither Hatfield or Mopac have stooped to the horrors of what we learned in this thread. They don't raise their animals in such abhorrent conditions...(though I know these practices exist elsewhere). These animals aren't pets either.....they are raised specifically for consumption. To choose NOT to eat them is one persons perogative........as is, the choice to eat them!

Plants are alive (but they have no faces) yet we eat them everyday!

If it isn't grown.......it has to be mined!

Really tough subject Fussy! Kinda like the bible and politics!

*hugs for the awareness factor*

[FussyPucker]

Hey I'm the first to admit I'm a total meat eater. I think you can enjoy the food more if you know the animal had a nice life.........errr before it was killed, sliced, diced and vacuum packed for extra freshness :)

Seriously though I really hate the whole idea of factory farming.

[LixyChick]

Amen.....my brother from another mother!

[Steph]

I have to respectfully disagree with the "plants are alive" argument . . . as a vegetarian, I get this one a lot and I'm not sure why.

For plants to feel physical pain, they must have some sort of organized tissue which, upon stimulation, would activate a structure in the plant that is conscious and could perceive the stimulation as painful. There are no structures within plants that are analogous to the pain receptors, neurons, and pain-perceiving portions of the brains of vertebrate animals. Animals, being mobile, benefit from their ability to sense pain; but plants simply have no biological or evolutionary need for the experience of pain.


*off the soapbox* :D

[Casperr]

Why oh why didn't I just take the blue pill??

[LixyChick]

Originally posted by Steph
I have to respectfully disagree with the "plants are alive" argument . . . as a vegetarian, I get this one a lot and I'm not sure why.

For plants to feel physical pain, they must have some sort of organized tissue which, upon stimulation, would activate a structure in the plant that is conscious and could perceive the stimulation as painful. There are no structures within plants that are analogous to the pain receptors, neurons, and pain-perceiving portions of the brains of vertebrate animals. Animals, being mobile, benefit from their ability to sense pain; but plants simply have no biological or evolutionary need for the experience of pain.


*off the soapbox* :D
I totally understand what you are saying Steph......cause, logically...it makes perfect sense. But........I saw this study once (on The Discovery Channel or something like that) where scientist's tested the theory that all living things sense pain and have feelings. I'm not saying this is gospel......but......in the study, they placed two plants in the same room with the same light and same food and water amounts for X amount of time. They played music for them and with certain types of music, the plants thrived....with other types (say...heavy metal...as an example) they stopped showing growth and even bent away from the source.

To further the investigation.....after about 3 months or so (guessing at that one.....but it's close) they removed one of the plants to another room.....but it was in the same building. To test an off the wall theory, the scientists started starving the plant that was moved......no water, no food, dim lighting...the whole thing. And to take it one step further they hooked up sensors to the first plant to record any change in heat, vibrations.....anything. Slight changes were recorded as time went on. Sorta like a mood swing. And to take this even one step further......they started breaking leaves off the moved plant....breaking them in half instead of at the base.....and significant changes were recorded (at the precise times as the leaves were snapped) by the unmoved plant.....as if in sympathy for the moved and mistreated plant. At least this was the theory (though, no sensors were placed on the tortured plant....which would have made more sense)....and they tested it over and over in ways we, as humans with feelings for pain and sorrow, might construe as mean and hurtful.

I just wanted to let you know Steph....that what you say is logical....but what I saw (though it can be interpreted in any way the beholder sees fit) was............one plant feeling sorrow and whincing when "his friend" was hurting. This might be one of those things where....seeing is understanding.....but I hope I explained why I said what I said.

I go fishing.....but I would never hunt (game). Does that make any sense? NOPE! I know! There are some who swear that fish can't feel that hook in their mouth....(or wherever it might get hooked)......but I'm not one of um. I know in my heart they can feel the stabbing pain! When we pull up bait and let the minnows sit on the floor of the boat as we move to another spot......I soak the air gasping minnows in the bait bucket till we get where we're going.....and then......I'm the first one with my line in the water! I'm a walking, talking, oxymoron I tell ya! LMFAO! I'll tear a hook through an eels mouth and send him sailing into the water.......but I won't put a minnow on my own hook.......but......I'll reel in that striper when he is fighting for his life................I think I'm nuts! LMFAO again!

*jumps down and passes the soapbox to the left*

[Tralis]

Although I am opposed to factory farms it does keep the meat cheaper, although we really don't need it to be cheaper here. In India and other 3rd world countries factory farms would actually get a needed source of cheap protein. In the US we can afford the higher cost of allowing the animals to be free. As for vegeterainism studies suggest one should not be a vegetarian before the age of 21, since we did evolve to eat meat and it is key to development. Kids who are vegetarians significantly before 21 have on average a 9% decrease in nueron connections, which can make a huge differnce. However after 21 the metabolism slows down and the body stops developing as much so its less important.

[Steph]

Originally posted by Tralis
As for vegeterainism studies suggest one should not be a vegetarian before the age of 21, since we did evolve to eat meat and it is key to development.

Although humans are capable of digesting meat, human anatomy clearly favors a diet of plant foods. Our digestive systems are similar to those of the other plant-eaters and totally unlike those of carnivores. The argument that humans are carnivores because we possess "canine" teeth ignores the fact that other plant-eaters have "canine" teeth, and that ONLY plant-eaters have molar teeth. Finally, if humans were designed to eat meat, we wouldn't suffer from heart disease, cancer, diabetes, and osteoporosis from doing so.

As for the argument about a certain age being right for being a vegetarian, this statement makes the assumption that protein from plants isn't as good as protein from meat. The truth is, protein is protein. It is all made from amino acids. Children need 10 essential amino acids to grow and develop properly. These amino acids are as readily available in plants as they are in meat.

[Tralis]

No it does not, as said before Animals sysnthesize amino acids plants cannot. Also Meat contains other nutrients aviable in plants at such small levels its ridiculous. (Any want to eat 300 pounds of brocoli to get 1 drumsticks worth of Dipolyathilium) Also those failures do occur in other animals, at the same rate in herbivores and carnevores. In us it comes from an exesive amount of meat (Atkins, or even less) not meat itself. In fact without animal protein the heart is weaker and more suspetiable to coronary failure.

[Steph]

I'd love to see some links!

AFAIK, the only vitamin not readily available in plants is B12, however, any human who has eaten meat has enough stored in his colon to keep him going for the most part. B12 can also be found (yuck) through dirt but more popularly is supplemented through a vitamin.

I'll show you my links if you'll show me yours!

http://www.vegetarian-diet.info/vegetarian-diet-myths.htm

[Steph]

Originally posted by Tralis
In fact without animal protein the heart is weaker and more suspetiable to coronary failure.

How is it then that studies show a vegetarian diet contributes to a lower rate of heart attacks?

Loma Linda University of California decided to test 24,000 people to determine mortality rates from heart disease. They found that lacto-ovo vegetarians (including dairy and eggs) had 66% fewer deaths from heart disease than their meat-eating counterparts. Pure vegetarians had an impressive 90% fewer deaths than the meat-eaters.

http://www.healthrecipes.com/heart_attack.htm

Once again, I respectfully ask for links proving your theories.

[Tralis]

Time Magazine, Week 37, 2000

Also Lacto-ovo vegterian in most studies have 25% fewer heart related deaths than more "Pure" Vegetarians. Who can say that the aging hippy ranks of veaganism are more pure. They tend to have hugely weak immune systems and the vegetarian who only eat fruit, whatever their called, are dropping like flies. The reason vegetarian are more healthy is becuase people eat too much meat. In moderation meat is good, but with the atkins diet its not only taking it too far, its turing a good thing into an attrocity. Also who are you to say arn't meant to eat meat when all primates eat at least bugs, if not somthing even larger. Lacto-ovos tend to have 8 extra years over veageans. People who eat poltry and fish in moderation tend to live 12 years longer than veagans. Also birds and fish do not have quia so you can't argue that you are hurting them. Plus if they anr't farmed you think the species will live on a happy life in the forest? Nope. They become extinct. They are domesticated and will not survive in the wild at all. Human propagate their speices by farming them!

[Steph]

Interesting . . . but still no link. Time magazine has an article on vegetarianism but I don't see the above theory there:

http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101020715/story5.html