Warning: RANT inside

[Gilly]

Iraqi's behead US hostage on video (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_2)

For starters, the above link is an article, not the video. There is 1 still shot from it, showing the man they beheaded before doing so.

I am not a proponant for humane abuse, but answer me one question. Why are we spending money prosecuting our own soldiers for some rather minimal abuse (all things considered, I feel it was minimal- not right but not nearly as bad as it could have been), when the Iraqi's are doing 10x worse to the American soldiers, and televising it?

What happened in our own ranks was tasteless, even more so that pictures were taken.

But honestly, what do people expect us to do in retaliation to how we're treated at their hands? I sure as hell wouldn't lie down, and wait for them to take me and do this same thing.

This whole war just pisses me off. I see the need to help out- WHERE we are WANTED and NEEDED. We did what, free these people? Sure, there are some greatful people who likely thank us for it. But a majority of them appear to hate us more NOW, than before.

Why exactly do the American people go out of their way to help people all over the world, with disaster relief, with soldiers, with money, and what not, when we rarely get the thanks for it?

-sighs- Ok, end of rant. It's just articles like that above that make me see red for a bit. Especially since I personally know two people there. I know 1 is fairly safe at his job, but the ter has been right on the front line since the day they marched Baghdad last year. He was supposed to be out. A few weeks ago, he was packed, he had his replacement soldiers all trained, and he was in a convoy on the way to Kuwaite, where he would get on a plane, and go back to a base in Germany. From there, he had only to tie up paper work, and he would have been on US soil and free and clear of the army as of June 1st.

Instead, the riots that started up a few weeks back caused his convoy to first be delayed 500 yards from the border, just out of freedom's reach. From there, they sent the convoy back, and he's stuck there until August now. Every day and every report makes it worse. :(

[Lilith]

Originally posted by Gilly


I am not a proponant for humane abuse, but answer me one question. Why are we spending money prosecuting our own soldiers for some rather minimal abuse (all things considered, I feel it was minimal- not right but not nearly as bad as it could have been), when the Iraqi's are doing 10x worse to the American soldiers, and televising it?


Because 2 wrongs doesn't make it right. And I would not categorize what our soldiers did as minimal after having seen the rape pics.

It's war not a duel...it's ugly and it is going to be in our faces this time. People whose lives are on the line are rarely civil. Nor can we expect them to be.

[Irish]

Gilly---See my" Letter" thread.It might help a little!Also'it is said that he was beheaded,in retaliation,for the prison abuse.I was just working,in my garage,& I had the radio,on to WRKO in Boston.On the news,his father said that his son had been killed
long ago.The tape was just released today. Irish
P.S.Don't shoot the messenger,I'm just repeating what I heard on the radio.By the way,military extensions are nothing new.
When,I got stationed at Pease AFB,I was in the Recip.Eng.Shop.
We shared thesame bld.,as the Jet Eng.Shop.About 70% of them were involuntarily extended for 90 days,because of VN.Not fair,
but it happened!This was in 1962! Irish

[Boulevard37]

i read "the letter" it looks and feels more like a form letter to me and that we will soon see many more e-mails like this if not idenical as was done a few months ago the same letter to the editor was sent to many newspapers around the US by service men and women, all the same word for word,
I think this could be the Bush machine working to change our minds. My mind is made up we must stop the war!!! how many more men and women must die for a lie?

[Nice Guy]

Gilly I agree completely with you. In fact on a different forum I have been chewed out by just about everyone there for expressing a similar view point.

Lilith I also agree with you that 2 wrongs don't make a right, but I also believe that it is getting blown way out of proportion.

[Gilly]

I agree, 2 wrongs don't make it right. However, before any of these photo's even came out, we were seeing itty bitty barely there bylines about american executions and beatings that were taking place there, most often highly televised, and publicisized.

Of the things done 'wrong', our own abuse of their prisoner's was WAY more highly publicized than the deaths of our own people at their hands, often in brutal ways.

This latest is simply another byline, a few sad words at a funeral, and a family broken apart. The us government seems to think it's far more interesting and news worthy when we get caught trying to retaliate.

It's like when you're in the 5th grade, and the school bully's mom is the playground aid. If he starts it and you finish it, you get in trouble. If you start it, you get in trouble. Does the bully? No.

[cbass1976]

that was very bad i feel sorry for his parents and family.......

[Irish]

Just for the record.I'm a 10% disabled VN Vet & I am for the war!
As for Bullys,my father,always told me-Never start a fight,just make sure that you finish it!He had been a Conn State Cop(quit)
& an aux. Branford Conn cop(Quit) Irish
P.S.Different strokes for different folks!

[cowgirltease]

For all of you who sympathize with the Iraqi's..........
How who you feel if that was your brother that got beheaded??
hey...... what comes around goes around!

[Belial]

While it would be nice to see coverage of the good that the coalition soldiers are doing in Iraq, if you tell the world that you are the "good guy", you're expected to act like it. No-one in the Western media is calling the Iraqi insurgents "good guys". That's why torture carried out by US soldiers is considered more newsworthy, it's not shocking to see people who we are continually told are "evil" behaving that way.

[LixyChick]

Good point Belial!

I can't say that I have been able to follow this story...and I'm only now catching up on the details. What are civilians doing in Iraq anyway? Rebuilding? We're still at war...so why rebuild what could be distroyed again tomorrow? If that's not the answer (civilians rebuilding), then could someone please explain why one would feel a need to be in a war zone? Was this guy with the media? A missionary? How did he get captured?

I feel so bad for the family! They have to relive this horror on a minute by minute update by the media. They've come from all points of the world to speak with the family. And now the execution is a world wide event on the internet! Whoever placed it there should be arrested for invasion of privacy! It's just not right! And we as humans, with a heart and soul, should know that and just NOT do some things on impulse...just because we can!

I'm pissed at the effects of the war...YES! War is hell! But I'm even more pissed off at the invasion of privacy for this family, in their time of mourning!

[jseal]

LixyChick,

Alas madam, invasion of privacy has already, even here, been asserted as acceptable political speech.

[Irish]

There is a BIG difference between,humiliation&torture!We,obviously need something to replace the Geneva Convention
Code.Taking the pictures &releasing, both of them,also violate it.
Things must be agreed on.You can't say that one thing is OK,but
another,in your opinion,is not.
Lixy---I don't know if it's true or not,but I heard,on one network,
that he was also a Peace activist,who had gone to rebuild things.
What happened to him,is an atrocity,not humiliation. Irish
P.S.Should I hold my breath ,waiting for a foriegn leader,to
apoligise,as our leaders have,numerously, done?

[Gilly]

-chuckles@Irish- We would all expire, or at the very least pass out, waiting for something like that.

[having_fun]

Gilly, I for one here, agree with you. Unfortunately, most of Americas have no idea what war is, and has no desire to remove their rose colored glasses to see the reality.

In reference to the beheading, if it was motivated by the prison situation, I blame the media, who have looped the pictures and story over and over. America has become so politically correct that we allow the mass media to report anything they want without any means of holding them accountable for their actions.

I support their first amendment rights, however I also believe that all media outlets should be held accountable for their actions. Time after time we see where individuals or groups, like those in the beheading, are spurred on my media coverage, or a chance at their 15 minutes of fame. If it is proven that this beheading was in retaliation to the prison incident, then the media should face conspiracy to commit murder charges, as they were a major factor in this mans death.

War is war. Americans must understand that our military would like nothing more than to enter a conflict like this, have all the insurgents lay down their weapons and surrender. And when asked questions they would all answer truthfully the first time. But we all know that doesn't happen.

I am sure that if any here were personally effected by the death of a brother, father, or sister, and it came to light that we had a detainee that had information that would have saved their life, and only asked them nicely to provide that information, their would be unsurmounted outrage.

Hell, most Americans can't get their children to tell them the truth about who spilled the Kool-Aid on the couch. How in the world do they expect an Iraqi insurgent to volunteer information that might be the demise of his/her cause.

There is one and only one goal in war, and that is to win. Imagine yourself in a fight. How long are you going to let someone kill your brothers, shoot at you, and slap you in the face until you decide to do whatever you can to bring the fight to an end. I don't care what some people say, sometimes the end does justify the means.

If humiliating a war prisoner will save American lives by gaining information that leads to the recovery of insurgents, or weapons I say go for it.

"Two wrongs don't make a Right" is a cute saying for those who live in a perfect world, but this is not a perfect world. I am sure that every person on earth has at one time or more in their lives resorted to some act that wasn't nice, to get back at someone who has done them wrong, or pissed them off - But that's different, Right. Only because you were personally involved, and it was just a little pay back, Right.

Bottom line, war is war, and sometimes it isn't nice. Additionally, the media needs to be held accountable for their actions, any time their actions cause harm to come to Americans. Reporting, like is being practiced by CBS, ABC, and CNN is no different that yelling fire in a theatre.

Just think back a little, worse has been done to our POWs, where was the outrage in the press?

[Gilly]

Originally posted by having_fun

Just think back a little, worse has been done to our POWs, where was the outrage in the press?

It's far easier for America to understand anger than sorrow. They'll print what's going to make us mad, not sad.

For journalists, it's about the money, not about the true situation.

[PantyFanatic]

Originally posted by Lilith
....it's ugly and it is going to be in our faces this time. People whose lives are on the line are rarely civil. ...


Times. ......... they are achangin.

[Irish]

Boulevard37---While it may be true,that there are many form letters,I suggest that you look at Liliths,latest addition,in the
"Letters"thread,of a Snopes article! Irish

[Kissy]

Originally posted by Irish
Boulevard37---While it may be true,that there are many form letters,I suggest that you look at Liliths,latest addition,in the
"Letters"thread,of a Snopes article! Irish

Irish, that was a good thread but if you follow that link that Lilith posted although it verifies that the guy in fact wrote that letter, hardly any of what's in the letter is fact.

My husband is a disabled veteran, a lot of our friends are in Iraq right now. I have mixed feelings on all the issues. I live in a far from perfect world and yet I also feel two wrongs do not make a right. Not all of the pictures that have been on the news were taken for the same reasons. Some people are talking about how torturing the prisoners for information is ok, well that isn't for me to decide however a few of the pictures I've seen had nothing to do with getting information. They were rediculous immature soldiers who are supposed to be doing a specific job and instead are humiliating people who have already been caught and are serving time in a prison. I don't know the Iraqi people in those pictures. How do I know that they aren't there just on suspicion, maybe their waiting a trial? Who knows. And on the other side, maybe they are there for something horrible. I know there's a few people in the U.S. who've done horrible things who I've thought deserved nothing less that torture. But the only thing worse than showing me these pictures is to not give me the whole story so I can make my own opinion on them. :mad:

[Kissy]

Oh my god! Be careful when you're searching for information. I'm always wanting more information, and I was trying to search for more stories on this poor man who was beheaded. And I came up with the video. Ok I will never go searching for more information that I can handle ever again. I will not be sleeping tonight. I just had to warn people who might also be looking for more information. There was no warning, I thought it was another story and it came up in my media player, just popped right up and I thought "oh a slide show"....um no not quite. My hands are cold and I think i'm done on the computer for a while. That was the sickest thing ever......

[Irish]

As I have said before:The only person,that you really have to satisfy & appease,is the person,that looks back from the mirror!
Only YOU knows if you truly beleive,what you say that you do.I,
personally,would be dissapointed,in myself,if I was bullshitting
myself! Irish
P.S.Everyone wants to be liked,but that isn't as important as being true to yourself!