Apology!!!!

[Irish]

APOLOGY

For good and ill, the Iraqi prisoner abuse mess will
remain an issue. On the one hand, right thinking
Americans will abhor the stupidity of the actions
while on the other hand, political glee will take
control and fashion this minor event into some
modern day My Lai massacre.

I heard some Arabs and Muslims are asking for an
apology. I humbly offer mine here:

I am sorry that the last seven times we Americans took
up arms and sacrificed the blood of our youth, it was
in the defense of Muslims (e.g., Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf
War 1, Kuwait, Afghanistan, etc.).

I am sorry that no such call for an apology from the
extremists came after 9/11. I am sorry that all of the
murderers on 9/11 were Islamic Arabs.

I am sorry that most Arabs and Muslims have to live in
abject squalor under savage dictatorships. I am sorry
that their leaders steal and squander their wealth. I am
sorry that their governments breed hate for the US in their
religious schools, mosques, and government-controlled
media.

I am sorry that Yasir Arafat was kicked out of every
Arab country and "highjacked" the Palestinian "cause."
I am sorry that no other Arab country will take in or
offer more than a token amount of financial help to
those same Palestinians.

I am sorry that the USA has to step in and be the big-
gest financial supporter of poverty stricken Arabs,
while the insanely wealthy Arabs blame the USA for
all their problems.

I am sorry that our own left wing elite, our media, and
our own brainwashed (from elements of our society
like radical professors, CNN and the New York TIMES)
masses do not understand any of this. I am sorry the
United Nations scammed the poor people of Iraq out
of the "food for oil" money so they could get rich while
the common folk suffered.

I am sorry that some Arab governments pay the families
of homicide bombers upon their death. I am sorry that
those same bombers are brainwashed thinking they will
receive 72 virgins in "paradise."

I am sorry that the homicide bombers think pregnant
women, babies, children,the elderly and other non-
combatant civilians are a legitimate targets.

I am sorry that our troops die to free more Arabs from
the gang rape rooms and the filling of mass graves of
dissidents of their own making.

I am sorry that Muslim extremists have killed more
Arabs than any other group.

I am sorry that foreign trained terrorists are trying
to seize control of Iraq and return it to a terrorist
state.

I am sorry every time terrorists hide they find a
convenient "Holy Site." I am sorry they didn't
apologize for driving a jet into the World Trade
Center that collapsed and severely damaged Saint
Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church - one of our Holy
Sites.

I am sorry they didn't apologize for flight 93 and
175, the USS Cole, the embassy bombings, the
murders and beheadings of Daniel Pearl, Nick Berg,
Paul M. Johnson Jr., and etc....etc!

I am sorry Michael Moore is American; he could feed
a medium sized village in Africa.

America will get past this latest absurdity. We will
punish those responsible, because that is what we do.
We will continue to hang out our dirty laundry for all
the world to see, because that is also what we do. We
will also move on. That's one of the reasons we are
hated so much. We don't hide this stuff like all those
Arab countries that are now demanding an apology.

Deep down inside, when most Americans saw this
reported in the news, we were like - so what? We
lost hundreds and made fun of a few prisoners.

Sure, it was wrong, sure, it dramatically hurts our
cause, but until we captured them we were trying to
kill these same prisoners. Now we're supposed to
wring our hands because a few were humiliated?
Our compassion is tempered with the vivid memories
of our own people killed, mutilated, drug through the
streets and burnt amongst a joyous crowd of cele-
brating Fallujans. I am sorry we don't drop a few
dozen Daisy cutters on Fallujah.

If the truth be known and you're wanting an apology
from this American, you're going to have a long wait.
You have a better chance of finding those 72 virgins.

[Belial]

When a country takes on a role of benevolence, they are and should be held to a higher standard than the nations with regimes they condemn. So I don't quite understand why it's relevant that those identified as terrorists or other "evil" people haven't issued apologies for what they've done. Similarly, this whole line of "Well, we did x, but they did y", I can't understand. If abusing prisoners was going to stop someone getting beheaded, maybe. But no. What happened was incredibly poor behaviour and whoever ordered it should apologize (if they believe themselves wrong in doing it) and probably be court-martialed.

[Lisa976]

Thank you Irish for saying what I feel in my heart,, very well put,,

[Nice Guy]

Thank you as well Irish. That is exactly how I feel about the whole situation.

Belial I understand and accept your position on this matter, I've been hearing it a lot from a different forum I post to. I however do not agree with it in the least. Regardless of what we do or how we do it, portions of the world will always be screaming about what we do and how we do it.

I look at it as, It happend it isn't that big of a deal. Find out what went wrong fix it, punish those who need to be punished, and move on. It doesn't need the type of media attention it received.

[Irish]

Belial---You have stated your opinion & I have stated mine.There is a BIG
difference between torture & making one feel uncomfortable.I know that two
wrongs,don't make a right.When,as a teenager,you walk into an,abandoned,
VN camp,& find the body of an American soldier,with the head,held by stakes,
so that it can't be turned & the eyelids,cut off,that is torture ,not mental
abuse.What was done in that prison,wasn't right but we have seen,different
things,& therefore have a different opinion on things.It may not be right but
it changes your outlook! Irish
P.S.The screams,were,probably,very enjoyable,when the sun came up!

[Mackenzie]

When a country takes on a role of benevolence, they are and should be held to a higher standard than the nations with regimes they condemn. So I don't quite understand why it's relevant that those identified as terrorists or other "evil" people haven't issued apologies for what they've done. Similarly, this whole line of "Well, we did x, but they did y", I can't understand. If abusing prisoners was going to stop someone getting beheaded, maybe. But no. What happened was incredibly poor behaviour and whoever ordered it should apologize (if they believe themselves wrong in doing it) and probably be court-martialed.

Perhaps if you had friends fighting in Iraq right now you'd understand a little more.
Or maybe if you were an American and watched loved ones go down in the buildings on 9/11.
I guarantee that THEN you would understand how we feel.


Once again...Thanks to Irish for posting that!

[wyndhy]

I am sorry Michael Moore is American; he could feed
a medium sized village in Africa.

i saw a version of this a few months ago but i missed that^^^^PMFPL

thanks for sharing irish

[dicksbro]

Thanks, Irish. Well said.

[Eros]

One word to that Irish....AMEN!

[cowgirltease]

Belial---You have stated your opinion & I have stated mine.There is a BIG
difference between torture & making one feel uncomfortable.I know that two
wrongs,don't make a right.When,as a teenager,you walk into an,abandoned,
VN camp,& find the body of an American soldier,with the head,held by stakes,
so that it can't be turned & the eyelids,cut off,that is torture ,not mental
abuse.What was done in that prison,wasn't right but we have seen,different
things,& therefore have a different opinion on things.It may not be right but
it changes your outlook! Irish
P.S.The screams,were,probably,very enjoyable,when the sun came up!

(((((((((Irish)))))))))))
I am so sorry for what you had to go thru. :(

[Irish]

All---I'm sorry,that I mentioned ANYTHING.I had the high security clearance,
that I had,partially because I wouldn't talk about it.It was checked again when I worked for Sikorsky Aircraft.I worked some of the time,on Presidential
Aircraft.I had to work,inside a fenced in area,with cameras on me,all of the
time.(because of previous sabatoge attempts)That time,they even asked my
landlord,about my habits.Being the fiesty,old bastard,that he was,he told them-"If you want to know about him,Ask him,I'm not telling you anything.
No one got along with him,but he & I got along great! Irish

[Bilbo]

Irish:
I agree with what you have stated in a general point of view towards those who would use terror too there advanatage, and then to use the same terror as a blanket to hide there own action, for the cause.
I can also see Belials piont of view, maybe there should be an appology, BUT not from you or your fellow americans but those who have terrorised.

Lastly

Perhaps if you had friends fighting in Iraq right now you'd understand a little more.
Or maybe if you were an American and watched loved ones go down in the buildings on 9/11.
I guarantee that THEN you would understand how we feel.


Once again...Thanks to Irish for posting that!

Do not think for one minuet that the 9/11 attack hurt only americans, I lost a cousin in that attack, and as I undestand some 750+ that were killed were NOT american.
This attack was to the world, and why you had support from all allies with the search fro Bin Ladin.
And I also seem to recall that Australia STILL have troops in Iraq.

[Belial]

Perhaps if you had friends fighting in Iraq right now you'd understand a little more.
Or maybe if you were an American and watched loved ones go down in the buildings on 9/11.
I guarantee that THEN you would understand how we feel.


Once again...Thanks to Irish for posting that!
What did I say that you disagree with?

[Belial]

[QUOTE=Bilbo]Irish:
I agree with what you have stated in a general point of view towards those who would use terror too there advanatage, and then to use the same terror as a blanket to hide there own action, for the cause.
I can also see Belials piont of view, maybe there should be an appology, BUT not from you or your fellow americans but those who have terrorised.

That's exactly what I meant, and said. I don't think "America" needs to apologize, just whoever's responsible.

[Vullkan]

no apologies are needed if you think about it--I wouldn't, save for the actual victems of the abuse. Having spent recently time over there defusing duds and clearing mine fields in the great kitty litter box, I am of the mind that if apologies are needed it should be arab to arab, Islam to Islam for centuries of brutality against each other. What happened at that prison is but a tiny pin prick.

In the days of Saladin, Islamic culture, understanding and tolerance was at its height--far more so then Medeaval Europe at the time. But with the passage of the centuries, petty tyrants have regressed and made so backward there peoples through cruelty, harshness, and brutallity.

But to be fair Western world hasn't been any help--there are a lot of evils done to them by European countries, the British, French, Germans (18th-19th-& 20th centuries) and sadly the USA. I could go on and write a book but shall not. As for an apology, from the USA, there would be that from me, an apology for perpetuating and supporting ISlamic tyrants based on short sighted policies and cold war politics.

[skyler_m]

Irish - This is fantastic. Thank you for sharing. You are saying what many Americans are thinking.

[Mackenzie]

Irish:
I agree with what you have stated in a general point of view towards those who would use terror too there advanatage, and then to use the same terror as a blanket to hide there own action, for the cause.
I can also see Belials piont of view, maybe there should be an appology, BUT not from you or your fellow americans but those who have terrorised.

Lastly



Do not think for one minuet that the 9/11 attack hurt only americans, I lost a cousin in that attack, and as I undestand some 750+ that were killed were NOT american.
This attack was to the world, and why you had support from all allies with the search fro Bin Ladin.
And I also seem to recall that Australia STILL have troops in Iraq.



I agree with you completely! Everyone was hurt by it.....it really hit home for me personally and I have a lot of friends and family in the military because of it. But I feel like if it had hit home (like it did me) for some people they would think differently about things...I know I did before it happened. :)

[Mackenzie]

no apologies are needed if you think about it--I wouldn't, save for the actual victems of the abuse. Having spent recently time over there defusing duds and clearing mine fields in the great kitty litter box, I am of the mind that if apologies are needed it should be arab to arab, Islam to Islam for centuries of brutality against each other. What happened at that prison is but a tiny pin prick.



Agree 100%!